{"content":{"sharePage":{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20061785","dateCreated":"1265896182","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"michelleli","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/michelleli","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20061785"},"dateDigested":1532170148,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Sea Imagery","description":"The sea imagery in this poem seems to make it "flow" like the waves of the ocean. Not literally, but flow in meaning. The sea imagery doesn't appear until the last part of the poem.
\n
\nFrom my point of view, the last stanza saying "We have lingered in the chambers of the sea\/By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown\/Till human voices wake us, and we drown," relates to the love towards this woman that seems to be going practically nowhere. Waves move up and down, but the water itself is in its place--the same particles rotating in the same spot. The same goes for this 'relationship.' There are ups and downs, but it's not going forward or even backwards.
\n
\nTo the poem itself, the sea imagery is more of a symbolic figure.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20062747","body":"I thought the ending where the speaker drowned after hearing human voices symbolized reality. The mermaids and the beauty under the ocean made the speaker happy but that's no more than a fantasy. The sea imagery, in fact, does appear before the ending. "I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of silent seas." I interpreted this as the speaker referring to himself as a crab, hiding underneath the hard shell and living all alone under the sea. Practically, living alone under the sea is his dream while he still portrays his inner desire to talk to women through the presence of mermaids.","dateCreated":"1265898043","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20084623","body":"I agree that sea could be a divide between reality and his ideal. And maybe this is going a little too far, but I think the sea could be a maternal symbol. Sometimes the sea is perceived as a mother figure in literature, a place where our lives begin and end (this is perhaps because one of the criticisms I read for my author Albert Camus dictated that the sea could be a maternal figure..). First, look at where in the poem the "sea" imagery appears:
\n
\n"And sawdust resaurants with oyster-shells" (4)
\n"I should have been a pair of ragged claws\/Scuttling across the floors of silent seas" (73,74)
\n"I shall wear white falnnel trowsers, and walk upon the beach.\/I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each" (123,124)
\n
\nAnd of course, the last two stanzas, in which Prufrock carefully describes the mermaids riding on the waves, and "we" lingering in the chambers of the sea.
\n
\nTo me, the "chambers of the sea" seemed to mean the mother's womb. Now I'm not too sure what the "seagirls" (which seem to reference the sirens in the Greek myth) would be in that case..but, in general,the poem makes sense given that interpretation. Eliot starts out the poem with the image of "a patient etherized upon a table," --an image of death. In the middle part (73,74) where the sea imagery appears, he goes on to mention "sleep" in the 75th line, another form of death (sleep is considered the closest form to death in a living human). In the last stanza, he finally mentions "birth" by saying that "we have lingered in the chambers of the sea" (129). But he then says that this is "Till human voices wake us, and we drown." (131).
\n
\nWe drown in what?
\nIn the universe that "he dares [not] disturb." The mother's womb is the only protection from the amount of order and pretentiousness that appears throughout the poem, since well, not being born, you wouldn't need to die to shy yourself away from the "fake" little tea parties and women that talk of Michelangelo.
\n
\nThis is why Eliot starts out with the image of death, and puts the image of birth only at the last part of the poem..Usually the end of the poem signifies a "conclusion" or a "solution" to the problem\/topic presented. Instead of the usual existentialist view that death is the only real way to escape from the "universe" that fixes you upon a pretentious routine with no meaning (Prufrock says that it has "eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase" (56)), he instead says that the only real solution is to not be born at all..That the moment we are born, we are fixed to the perpetual cycle of tea parties and Michelangelo-obsessed women.","dateCreated":"1265921515","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"LynnH91","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/LynnH91","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/LynnH91-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20060237","dateCreated":"1265890935","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20060237"},"dateDigested":1532170149,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Additional Topic: synecdoche and body parts.","description":"When I read through this poem again, I realized that there were so many synecdoches in this poem. "To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet," is a synecdoche in that faces represent the people that he needs to meet. His bald spot represents his middle age and the descriptions about the arm and the skirt trailing the floor represent women not just their body parts. It was quite weird in my opinion that there are so many descriptions and usage of body parts in this poem. Decapitated head, arms, legs, hair, eyes, and so many more specific parts of the body are mentioned but never in the poem does the author portray a whole body image of a person. From these descriptions about the parts of body, we assume about the speaker's age and the beauty of women that he sees. However, the author could have easily just written about the overall beauty. Why use specifically body parts? I loved the use of synecdoches in this poem. : )","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20059693","dateCreated":"1265888922","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20059693"},"dateDigested":1532170149,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Perfectly Modernism","description":"4. How does this poem reflect modernism and your other experiences of modern literature?
\n
\nLove Song of J. Alfred Prufrock is a clear representation of modernism. First of all, the overall mood of the poem is pessimistic. The speaker of the poem continuously disgruntles about his physical appearance, such as his "bald spot", and shows absolutely no courage to talk to women. His lack of confidence is still not clearly solved at the end, which also shows another characteristic of a modernism poem: futility. The poem shifts back and forth from showing his lack of confidence and then descriptions about women, as well as description of nature. The poem is chaotic just like any other modernism poems and the speaker clearly has a confusion about his identity. Lack of confidence, cowardice, and hesitance to even try talking to women even goes to the point of loss of morality. Unlike romanticism poems that lacked major problems about oneself, this poem is ALL about his poems. The only romanticism characteristic I could find in this poem is the beautiful descriptions of nature. The characteristics of free verse, or stream of consciousness, is also present in this poem. The urban setting of the poem symbolizes the problems of the speaker with words such as "yellow fog."","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20060217","body":"I really agree with this post. It is true that this poem is really pessimistic since the speaker has hard time with his physical appearance. Also, this poem has no clear resolution, unlike earlier novels, where everything gets tied up neatly, whether in a good way or not.
\n
\nWhat I found interesting in this poem was the repeated allusion to past literature in the poem.
\n
\nThe epigraph of the poem is from Dante's epic poem about hell.
\n
\n"If I thought my answer were given
\nto anyone who would ever return to the world,
\nthis flame would stand still without moving any further.
\nBut since never from this abyss
\nhas anyone ever returned alive, if what I hear is true,
\nwithout fear of infamy I answer you."
\n
\nAlso, the speaker states that he's not Hamlet-Shakespeare. I found this interesting in enriching the poem-Dante's epigraph about hell seems to introduce the pessimistic and settled mood to the poem because it's about hell. And, Hamlet, which the speaker rejects, oddly looks familiar to the speaker himself because Hamlet is the character that always contemplates and has conflicts inside his mind.
\n
\nAnd, like many other modernist literature, this poem employed experimental styles like stream of consciousness and free verse to present chaotic mood.","dateCreated":"1265890847","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"alexlsong","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/alexlsong","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20060269","body":"Thank you for explaining about the allusion. I understood the Hamlet allusion but didn't quite get the Dante part until I read your description. : ) Now I really get why "Fool" is capitalized due to Hamlet allusion.","dateCreated":"1265891121","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20059289","dateCreated":"1265885126","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"Jessica_Y","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Jessica_Y","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20059289"},"dateDigested":1532170149,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Prufrock: Mousy Modernist","description":"Reading T.S. Eliot\u2019s poem The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock brought back summer memories of Joseph Heller\u2019s Catch-22. Heller created a novel based on fragments of time--of inconsistent intervals. And though Catch-22 is a postmodernist novel, both disjoint time and space in a stream-of-consciousness fashion. In doing so, Prufrock embodies the fragmented mind and the introverted individual. He jumps from thought to thought as though he were flipping through television channels. I felt the most abrupt jump between thoughts in lines 122-124:
\n
\n\u201cShall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
\nI shall wear white flannel trowsers, and walk upon the beach.
\nI have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.\u201d
\n
\nT.S. Eliot goes from \u201cpeach\u201d to \u201cmermaid\u201d in three lines. How mermaids and peaches are related to each other I cannot imagine. The erratic and disconnected string of ideas displaces readers--another effect of modernist poetry.
\n
\nPrufrock also represents the introverted individual, reflecting alienation from his surroundings. He could talk to these women but instead he chooses to remain a timid observer. Perhaps society has rejected him, or perhaps he has rejected it. Individualistic and introverted, he is thoroughly aware of his environment but does not physically interact with people or objects very much (rather, more in abstract).","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20059913","body":"I agree that the stream-of-consciousness like lines made me confused as well. The frequent transitions between subjects and not clearly explaining everything that the speaker says adds to your point that this poem was indeed filled with disconnected string of ideas that displaced myself as well. I thought, "
\nI grow old\u2026 I grow old\u2026 I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled," was also out of nowhere. Or maybe there might be a hidden meaning. This poem, filled with allusions and disconnected monologue, confused me and amused me at the same time.","dateCreated":"1265889703","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20060369","body":"I agree that this poem employs stream-of-consciousness because it's so disconnected. I remember reading Ulysses when I really had hard time catching up the plot since many chapters were wholly written in stream-of-consciousness telling mood. Yet, i think such style was helpful in getting to know the character in a dynamic, active way, rather than the traditional, static way where character is "described by the author directly".
\n
\nAnd, I do think Prufrock is concerned with physical appearances.. To add one more example, in the last stanza, when the mermaid is "Combing the white hair of the waves blown back\/ when the wind blows the water white and black", it might be referring to Prufrock's hair, turning white.","dateCreated":"1265891551","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"alexlsong","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/alexlsong","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20066375","body":"Yes, although the poem does seem like a product of stream-of-consciousness thinking, I do not think this particular poem is a stream of consciousness piece. Firstly, I have encountered numerous pieces of prose that incorporate stream of consciousness but I have yet to encounter this type of writing in prose (assuming that Prufrock is not such a type, of course). Rather than the stream of consciousness, I believe Eliot intentionally fragmented and juxtaposed this poem in his way. The subject (J.A. Prufrock maybe) seems to be undergo a fragmenting process and then the reassembly at the end of the poem.
\n
\nWell, this is what I thought anyway.","dateCreated":"1265902364","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"pkcnam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/pkcnam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20085287","body":"I like that you put Prufrock as..the "mousy" modernist. Ha.
\n
\nTo me, it seems like he is isolating himself from the world, questioning "Do I dare\/Disturb the universe?" (45,46). The fact that he has "known them all" appears to be an almost condescending view that Prufrock presents against the tea party crew, a.k.a. the women who "come and go, speaking of Michelangelo" (13,14). But anyways, I think we established that already in class..
\n
\nThroughout this poem, it seems that his bald spot is the only real connection throughout the disjoints of time and space. The reference to his bald spot appears in line 40, "with a bald spot in the middle of my hair", and in line 122, where he asks "shall I part my hair behind?" It seems that no matter the time and space, the bald spot remains consistent--a trivial issue compared to his existentialist complications he seems to be dealing with. I personally think the bald spot is there as a contrast to the greater questions of pretension, death, and meaning in life--that most of our life is spent on worrying about the trivial things, like a bald spot.","dateCreated":"1265922227","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"LynnH91","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/LynnH91","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/LynnH91-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20058575","dateCreated":"1265880373","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"sarahjang","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/sarahjang","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1222755549\/sarahjang-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20058575"},"dateDigested":1532170150,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"5. Others: Meaning of Food and Drinks in the Poem","description":"While reading the poem, I noticed that Prufrock thinks constantly about what he just ate, what he's about to eat, or what he may or may not eat in the future.
\n
\nFor example in line 7, it seems that T.S. Elliot is using food to add to the description of the dirty city street with words such as the "oysters" at a probably low-class restaurant with sawdust on the floor and spilled drink. Other uses of food and drinks in the poem are more positive, such as line 34 where Prufrock mentions "toast and tea" or line 81 & 89-90 which emphasize Prufrock's love for tea and marmalade once again. It seems that throughout the whole poem Prufrock is thinking about food or drinks, and even when he talks about his life in line 51 he uses the word "measure" and mentions the tea spoon. These ironic and hilarious comments on food and drinks, however, reaches its climax at line 122 for readers see that even till the end all Prufrock can think about is eating a peach.
\n
\nThough one may put significant meanings to T.S. Elliot's aforementioned food and drinks, I think his ultimate purpose was humor, for what can be more hilarious than a man who worries about being out of place and alters his worries right away to whether or not to eat a peach.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20059473","body":""Toast and tea" and "marmalade and tea". To me, these don't seem like REAL food. These dainty foods that Prufrock seem to represent a proper, minimalist meal with little choice in menu. You said that Prufrock loves these delicacies, but could you share what indicates that (aside from how often he speaks about food)? I noticed that these dainty foods contrast with the real, rough "oyster-shells" he eats in sawdust restaurants in the second stanza and the peach he eats near the end when he searches for the ocean. I sensed that the oyster-shells and peaches represent the raw nature of man. It gets me to wonder whether the second stanza represents an escape from this restraining propriety. It sort of makes sense when you see that the poem ends with ocean (a symbol of freedom?) and starts with "oyster-shells".","dateCreated":"1265887282","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"Jessica_Y","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Jessica_Y","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20059985","body":"I thought of ID from Freud while reading. Every human being needs food to survive, and I was thinking that since Prufrock is human, too, he thinks about basic need, rather than any great or noble causes or sophisticated philosophy.
\n
\nBut, Prufrock is not a someone with no sense about what's going around him. He always contemplates and if the poem only contained such contemplation, I think it would be painful to read his story. So, I think Eliot was trying to ease the mood of the poem by inserting food and drinks in the poem.
\n
\nAbout the food and drinks being symbols, I'm not really convinced yet. Is there really deeper meaning to it, rather than serving as helping to set the settings?","dateCreated":"1265889907","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"alexlsong","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/alexlsong","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20090661","body":"This is very interesting because I have never really noticed the oysters and the marmalade. The only food that stood out to me was the peach. I thought that the peach was very random. But I thought that the food represented man and life. The life of the lower class is harder than the life of the upper class. So when T.S Elliot mentions oysters with cheep hotels in line 7, I thought he was emphasizing the hard life of the lower class. Towards the end when he asks himself, "Do I dare eat a peach?" I thought that he was talking about the middle and upper class. Would he join the little parties? The same goes for the bead. Bread is a lot softer than a oyster shell so therefore it represents the easier life of the upper and middle class.","dateCreated":"1265928407","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"lydiak","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lydiak","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/lydiak-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20058233","dateCreated":"1265878659","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"sarahjang","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/sarahjang","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1222755549\/sarahjang-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20058233"},"dateDigested":1532170150,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"1. Setting ","description":"This poem, no doubt, has several concrete settings, but the one that I want to focus on is the very first setting, or the dirty urban city street. While reading T.S. Elliot's poem, I noticed that the dirty streets add to the abstract mood of Prufrock's absurd monologue that seems to end up going nowhere.
\n
\nFor example in line 13~22, an extended metaphor comparing the streets to a cat runs through this entire stanza. Specific words like "muzzled," "back," "tongue," "leap," and "curled" puts this street out of place and soon as that's done the setting confuses the readers again in line 64 with what the lamplight from the same street reveals as the hair on the woman's arm. Then in lines 70-72 Prufrock returns to the setting of this dirty street again, recreating the image of a man leaning out of a window and smoking a pipe.
\nTrue to Prufrock\u2019s circular and evasive style the poem returns several times to the imagery of these streets, which contrast with the prim and proper middle-class life he seems to lead.
\n
\nJust like Prufrock's monologue, the descriptions of the streets are misleading and out of place.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20047171","dateCreated":"1265852112","smartDate":"Feb 10, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jshen123","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jshen123","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20047171"},"dateDigested":1532170150,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"3","description":"3. Describe the female imagery. How does it seem to be both positive and negative?
\n
\nThough the poem is very complex and indirect (it seems like a compiled data of what the speaker is thinking spontaneously), I was able to notice a strong feminism involved here. The quotes referring to men were a bit offensive. It describes men as if they are aliens. Feminism is designed to gain sympathy for women, but here, it almosts makes the reader feel who is the one needed for equality.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20059635","body":"Interesting point you brought up about feminism.
\n
\nI noticed a possible argument for feminism in the poem in line 102, "after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor--". He could be wanting these skirts to be shorter allowing more freedom for women or wanting them shorter (noticing their length), well, because he's a guy...haha Well for the former, the context seems to speak in favor of feminism. Teacups could represent domestic life. Yet the latter also seems VERY probable. This is stream-of-consciousness so the fact that skirts cross his mind does not surprise me; he really does play the part of an observer.","dateCreated":"1265888747","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"Jessica_Y","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Jessica_Y","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20059829","body":"I was able to see clear feminism in this poem in lines that described women. For example, "is it perfume from a dress That makes me so digress?",portrays the attractiveness of women but it could also portray a negative sense in that it could portray women as seductive. The presence of both positive and negative descriptions are also present when he describes the arm of women. "Arms that are braceleted and white and bare [But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!]" I understood these lines as if they were showing the speaker's thought on woman's duality. I perceived white and bare as innocent and beautiful but the bracketed part makes me wonder if it's symbolizing the hidden ugliness that he sees in women. I mean, hair is not the ideal feminine description : )","dateCreated":"1265889420","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20038315","dateCreated":"1265842726","smartDate":"Feb 10, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jenniferp22","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jenniferp22","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20038315"},"dateDigested":1532170151,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"4","description":"4. How does this poem reflect modernism and your other experiences of modern literature?
\nInitially, it is difficult to understand what the writer is trying to get at. At first, I thought it was just romantic, but after reading the whole thing a couple of times there are a lot of other themes within the poem. Feminism seems to be a theme that we have seen a lot this year. Modernist writings seem to be more complicated in their use of symbols, themes and have way more hidden meaning that the reader is supposed to be able to figure out.
\nWas anyone else reminded of After Dark by Haruki Murakami?
\nAfter Dark seemed like such a simple story, but while discussing it in class we found that there were TONS of things that we didn't think about.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20059849","body":"I agree with you on the poem's complicated usage of symbols. But, I thought After Dark was post-modernist work, not modernistic since modernism is usually associated with time between 1900s to 1950s.
\n
\nIn this poem, I think the author is using what's called "stream-of-consciousness" because the poem is about the narrator's flow of thoughts about his feelings, and thus, interrupts the natural, logical flow we anticipate usually. I think this can be seen at the part when Prufrock says, "I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled" because it's really random after saying he's growing old. And, I think this is just reflection of Prufrock's natural flow of thoughts, where things are not necessarily organized...
\n
\nAnd, I think that I can compare this piece of literature to A Farewell to Arms by Ernest Hemingway because they both involve the pessimistic, detached feeling (in this poem, Prufrock is detached from women, and in the novel, Henry wants to be detached from the war). Also, I note the interesting images describing the city landscape in the beginning, which many earlier poems don't try to describe about in detail.","dateCreated":"1265889479","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"alexlsong","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/alexlsong","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20061939","body":"I thought of After Dark as I read this too! Really weird, but I did. Not only were the symbols that you mentioned also something I noticed, but After Dark really seems to relate to a lot more stories and ideas than I expected when I first read the book (it looked really easy and simple at first).","dateCreated":"1265896719","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"michelleli","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/michelleli","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20038301","dateCreated":"1265842715","smartDate":"Feb 10, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jenniferp22","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jenniferp22","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20038301"},"dateDigested":1532170151,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"3","description":"
\n3. Describe the female imagery. How does it seem to be both positive and negative?
\nIt is interesting how women are portrayed with both positive imagery and negative imagery throughout he poem. Although the poet obviously is attracted to females as he describes and admires the smell of hair, he looks down on women and what they do. He thinks of them as the cause of why men stress out because he imagines they sit there and say things like :
\n
\n[They will say: "How his hair is growing thin!"]
\nMy morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
\nMy necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin\u2014
\n[They will say: "But how his arms and legs are thin!"]
\n
\nBecause of the opinions of the women who "come and go" he feels unworthy. It can also be seen that he thinks women are not as intelligent as men and only have petty things to do with their time as they sip their afternoon tea and talk about art. Women are part of a different universe than men in this poem.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20046983","body":"Yes I felt a strong sense of feminism here as well. We should take a closer look at the use of pronoun here. We don't see 'her' but we only see 'his'. Also, the tone here treats men as if they are totally different being from women. A little sarcastic, but powerful.","dateCreated":"1265851866","smartDate":"Feb 10, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jshen123","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jshen123","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20033615","dateCreated":"1265837126","smartDate":"Feb 10, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"lindsaylee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lindsaylee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20033615"},"dateDigested":1532170151,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"The setting","description":"Describe the setting(s). How do they reflect the character of Prufrock? What kind of world does he live in?
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\nThe poem starts off from a dark smelly neighborhood in London. The sick yellow fog circulates around the houses, drunken people stroll the street, sloppy-looking couples hang out in front of "cheap hotels," woman with bright clothes and too much makeup stares at you. Yet, Prufrock beckons you to follow him to the rabbit hole of squalor. Then both are lost in the darkness, which is exactly what Prufrock wanted. Here we can see his manipulative and sneaky character. He tries to keep us away from his overwhelming question and it just really seems like he's got something to hide.
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\nWe are also taken to the big city--but the hellish part of it. Everyone is sitting gently with a tea or coffee and "enjoy" their everyday boredom. However, Prufrock seems to attempt to make us think that he's cool and confident--but really, he just looks like a fool.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20061815","body":"I didn't notice the manipulative and sneaky side of Prufrock till I read this Lindsay; thanks for pointing that out. The setting did seem...not out of place, but more deceiving in a way when I read this. Prufrock's intentions of keeping the readers from questioning the unseen was accomplished, according to your thoughts.","dateCreated":"1265896344","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"michelleli","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/michelleli","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20067743","body":"I'm guessing the setting was inspired by Eliot's own life experiences. The particular city, I'm guessing, could be St. Louis, the city of Eliot's youth or London, the city of Eliot's literary adulthood. However, the ambiguous nature of the city could be a modernist trait as well... the frustration that comes from ambiguity, for example.","dateCreated":"1265903527","smartDate":"Feb 11, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"pkcnam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/pkcnam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]}],"more":false},"comments":[]},"http":{"code":200,"status":"OK"},"redirectUrl":null,"javascript":null,"notices":{"warning":[],"error":[],"info":[],"success":[]}}