{"content":{"sharePage":{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20993283","dateCreated":"1267615471","smartDate":"Mar 3, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jjlee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jjlee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20993283"},"dateDigested":1532171733,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Jung-Ah Lee absent work ","description":"1. What is the tone of the poem? Support your answer with two specific details from the text.
\nThe tone is evidently dark. The poet specifically identifies the word \u201csuffering\u201d as a theme, from the very beginning, in line 1: \u201cAbout suffering they were never wrong.\u201d He says our present perception on suffering is as defined and is painful. Moreover, the most powerful lines to me, as a reader, are lines 12 - 13 \u201cWhere the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse \/ Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.\u201d The word choices such as \u201cscratches\u201d and \u201ctorturers\u201d are very dark and even scary.
\n
\n3. What is the "human position" of suffering in this poem?
\nIt\u2019s interesting to discuss human identity of suffering when it may seem like human suffering comes from the situation, or position within in the society. However, the poem has a deeper meaning in a sense that it perceives the human emotions separate from the actual soul, maybe because human\u2019s aren\u2019t seen as complete to the eyes of Greek Gods..? Anyways, the human position of suffering is isolated. \u201cWhile someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully along;\u201d (line 4). Humans are unaware of others\u2019 suffering and can only know suffering by actually experiencing it.
\n
\n4. Do you agree with Auden's reading of human nature here? Why or why not?
\nI do not agree with Auden\u2019s reading of human nature because I believe that humans are much more affectionate in today\u2019s society compared to the society where Auden belongs to. Sometimes somebody\u2019s death may seemed like it "was not an important failure" (line 17), and this is evidently true. Auden can\u2019t expect not only humans, but any creature in the world to fall in love or feel a connection without knowing him\/her personally. It may seem harsh but it\u2019s the truth.
\n
\n7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.
\nrepetition - "dogs go on with their doggy" (12)
\nenjambment - \u201cHow, when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting \/ For the miraculous birth, there always must be\u201d (5,6)","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20921403","dateCreated":"1267507616","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"Jessica_Y","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Jessica_Y","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20921403"},"dateDigested":1532171733,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Lynn\/Jessica\/Yongmin","description":"Suffering is a constant cycle in life. The harsh reality is that one man\u2019s suffering is not necessarily the other man\u2019s suffering. We learn to accept that some people suffer while we don\u2019t. Suffering, in human position, is offset by the \u2018miraculous birth,\u2019 which is a form of happiness. Hence the reverently aged await birth and concede to suffering that happens around them. Even Christ demonstrates this cycle; he suffers in order to support the happiness of others. However, his suffering is not something we mourn over or realize constantly. The overall position of man is a passive one as we realize that suffering is essentially a part of life.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20921323","dateCreated":"1267507484","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"alexlsong","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/alexlsong","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20921323"},"dateDigested":1532171733,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Alex\/Jason","description":"1. What is the tone of the poem? Support your answer with two specific details from the text
\n
\n The tone of the poem is detached and lecturing because the speaker of the poem insists on using the painting as a way to describe his philosophy. For example, in first two lines, Auden says that The Old Masters understood well...., but gives no description about the Old Masters or be sentimental about Icarus's fate. Also, in line 12, "Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse), it sound quite detached, too, because Icarus dies, but no one else cares about his death.
\n
\n2. Look carefully at the Brueghel painting (from the Mus\u00e9e des Beaux Arts in Brussels) for the details described in the poem. Do you see other details in the painting that seem consistent with the tone of the poem?
\n There are many clues for determining the tone of the poem in the picture. For example, towards the lower middle, the plowman does not look at the direction of the sea, where Icarus is drowning in the water. He just goes on with his cow. Also, in the center, the shepherd is gazing at the sky, indifferent to what is going on beneath him. Finally, the ship seems to be turning away from Icarus, going towards the broad, open sea.
\n
\n3. What is the "human position" of suffering in this poem?
\n
\n
\n4. Do you agree with Auden's reading of human nature here? Why or why not?
\n
\n
\n
\n5. Briefly describe your first impressions regarding the author\u2019s diction and\/or syntax.
\nOur first impression of the author's diction and syntax was that the diction was very simple, yet uncaring about the supposed "tragedy" to Icarus. Also, even when harder words like "reverently" are used, it doesn't seem to distract the overall meaning of the poem because it doesn't seem to have a specific purpose of creating a mood. In terms of syntax, the author uses commas and enjambment to drag out the sentence, which creates a feeling of detachment because as sentence drags, the reader finds himself or herself less focused. Also, throughout the poem, active verbs (like shooting, jumping, etc.) are not used often, and descriptive verbs are instead used more often. So, this assists in creating a mood of detachment.
\n
\n7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.
\n
\nEnjambment \/ Scattered Rhyme
\n
\nThese all help to disorganize the poem, which in turn, reinforce the disorganized, detached, feeling to the poem. Allusion is also seen (Breughel's Icarus).","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20921221","dateCreated":"1267507263","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"laurenleee","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/laurenleee","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/laurenleee-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20921221"},"dateDigested":1532171733,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Lauren Lee and Yura Jung","description":"
\nLook carefully at the Brueghel painting (from the Mus\u00e9e des Beaux Arts in Brussels) for the details described in the poem. Do you see other details in the painting that seem consistent with the tone of the poem?
\nIn Brueghel\u2019s painting, there are many details that support his \u201cindividual suffering\u201d theme. For example, there\u2019s a shepherd that looks up towards the sky when Icarus is down below, sinking into the ocean. He looks towards the total opposite direction and cares less for someone\u2019s drowning death. Another detail is the fishing man, the man sitting near the shore, who is so close to Icarus but does not even look at him. He really could have seen Icarus drown but he makes absolutely no scene and doesn\u2019t even care whether Icarus is dying or not. These details support Breughel and the poem\u2019s meaning on how life goes on with people not necessarily caring about individual suffering. People don\u2019t have enough mercy to care every single one\u2019s pain.
\n
\nDo you agree with Auden's reading of human nature here? Why or why not?
\nWe don\u2019t agree fully since we believe that human beings tend to rely on each other and depend on each other. People rarely survive totally on their own and people do feel sympathy towards other people in pain and sometimes offer help. The Haiti earthquake is a clear example of people not ignoring other\u2019s sufferings just because it\u2019s not their own. However, we do admit that people do sometimes ignore other\u2019s pain as it is not their own business. That is why people sometimes purposely or naturally ignore other\u2019s pain that\u2019s far away or close like the fishing man and Icarus. But we don\u2019t want to agree that it\u2019s in our human nature to see other\u2019s suffer without any attention or help.
\n
\nBriefly describe your first impressions regarding the author\u2019s diction and\/or syntax.
\nHis diction and his syntax totally portrays his thoughts about people being ignorant of other\u2019s sufferings. The poem is filled with diction that underestimates sufferings and pains to show how human beings are ignorant about other individual sufferings. For example, the drowning is described with the word \u201csplash\u201d and the death of Icarus is something \u201camazing\u201d more than dreadful and tragic. His diction makes us feel like Icarus\u2019s death is generalized into daily events and makes us feel like there\u2019s no tragedy or any pain. His syntax includes harsh words being said quickly in the front with more calm and soothing words following to make it seem underestimated.
\n
\nHave each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different point
\n1. rhyme : green and seen, away and may, cry and sky
\n2. alliteration: sun shone
\n3. personification: the expensive delicate ship must have seen
\n4. allusion: Breughel\u2019s Icarus","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20920957","dateCreated":"1267506594","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"lydiak","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lydiak","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/lydiak-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20920957"},"dateDigested":1532171733,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Lydia & Sarah ","description":"1. What is the tone of the poem? Support your answer with two specific details from the text
\n
\n2. Look carefully at the Brueghel painting (from the Mus\u00e9e des Beaux Arts in Brussels) for the details described in the poem. Do you see other details in the painting that seem consistent with the tone of the poem?
\n
\n3. What is the "human position" of suffering in this poem?
\n
\n7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20921247","body":"What is the tone of the poem? Support your answer with two specific details from the text
\n
\nThe tone of the poem is dark, serious and sad. The topic of the discussion is rather ironic because it talks about human suffering and its impact. It is ironic because people don\u2019t care about other people\u2019s suffering. All they care about is their own problems. The poem is being a bit sarcastic at the end. A boy falling from the sky is something that doesn\u2019t happen in everyday life. It is not something that should be dealt with calmly. However, the poet writes, \u201cSomething amazing, a boy falling out of the sky, had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.\u201d The word calmly dismisses the seriousness of the situation. It seems as though the author has no interest in what happens to anyone else.","dateCreated":"1267507315","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"lydiak","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lydiak","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/lydiak-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20921255","body":"Look carefully at the Brueghel painting (from the Mus\u00e9e des Beaux Arts in Brussels) for the details described in the poem. Do you see other details in the painting that seem consistent with the tone of the poem?
\n
\nThe ploughman in the painting continues on with his work which connects to the 15th line. The shepherd and the ship that just continues on also is mentioned in the poem. If you look closely at the bottom right of the painting, you can see a fisherman sitting on the rock. His face is directed towards the boy but we see no reaction. The fisherman is consistent with the tone of the poem because the poem is all about being calm.","dateCreated":"1267507327","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"lydiak","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lydiak","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/lydiak-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20921373","body":"What is the "human position" of suffering in this poem?
\n
\nBy "human position" Auden is referring to the indifference of human beings to others' sufferings. It is for this reason that Auden mentions the fall of Icarus as "But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone"","dateCreated":"1267507574","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"sarahjang","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/sarahjang","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1222755549\/sarahjang-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20921401","body":"7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.
\n
\nOne element is the use of enjambment. By the use of enjambment, the poet controls the speed of the poem. It also is used to emphasize lines. For example, the line \u201cThey never forgot\u201d is focused. The longest line is the 3rd line. Because there are so many words, we can actually feel the dullness that the poet describes. If you look at the line \u201cHave heard the splash, the forsaken cry,\u201d we can see that the splash and scream was quick.","dateCreated":"1267507612","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"lydiak","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lydiak","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1202793136\/lydiak-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20921663","body":"7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.
\n
\nThe other poetic element we chose is alliteration. Throughout the poem the poet subtly develops his voice by choosing words that produce long, drawn-out sounds within the context of their sentences (dreadful, dogs, torturers, falling), creating pauses within his voice.","dateCreated":"1267508463","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"sarahjang","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/sarahjang","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1222755549\/sarahjang-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20907229","dateCreated":"1267490166","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"apark10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/apark10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20907229"},"dateDigested":1532171734,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"MIKE JERRY BRIAN ANNIE","description":"The Poem -- Read the Poem by Auden. (15 minutes?)
\nDiscuss. http:\/\/poetrypages.lemon8.nl\/life\/musee\/museebeauxarts.htm<\/a>
\n
\nCritical Reading Questions, answer 3 plus #7 (so four in all) of the following in nice paragraph form. Upload with all group members participation and names to the discussion forum on this page.
\n
\n1. What is the tone of the poem? Support your answer with two specific details from the text (MIKE)
\nIt is obvious from the start of the poem that the tone is not going to happy. \u201cAbout suffering they were never wrong,\u201d depicts the pessimistic view of the people that are portrayed within the painting. Starting from the plow man to the shepherd, everybody in the picture albeit working know that there is going to be suffering in their lives. But there is a shift in the tone of the poem in the line, \u201cThey never forgot that even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course.\u201d The line shows how the people cannot avoid the suffering, so the tone shifts from pessimistic to acceptance.
\n
\n3. What is the "human position" of suffering in this poem? (JERRY)
\nIn Greek mythology, the boundary between god and human are distinctively divided. Icarus fell down because he tried to get out of his "human position" and join the divine realm. In the painting, "human position" is shown with people working. They arouse a sense of suffering, which is deemed to be an ideal human position in world of gods. Icarus, however, suffers more because he tried to break this system.
\n
\n4. Do you agree with Auden's reading of human nature here? Why or why not? (ANNIE)
\nAuden seems to believe that it is in our human nature to be ignorant of "individual suffering," and I agree. Icarus fell into the water, and there were people around. But no one seemed to care. To them, his death "was not an important failure" (l. 17). They just went on with their normal daily routines. Likewise, we often sit in front of the TV and watch the news, or turn on the radio and hear about some natural disaster all the way over in South America. But do we stop what we're doing and pay close attention to these things? No, we go on with our individual lives, because it's in our human nature to be apathetic.
\n
\n5. Briefly describe your first impressions regarding the author\u2019s diction and\/or syntax. (BRIAN)
\nThe whole poem flows as if someone\u2019s telling a story to others. Since it\u2019s based on a myth, which usually contains a heroic element or a moral lesson, I was able to notice that the narrator is trying to reach an ultimate solution or ending. The poem also sounded like it was vividly describing something to its readers. Various things are going on and the poem covers all of them. The words are descriptive and direct.
\n
\n7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.
\nAnnie:
\n1. enjambment - "they understood \/ Its human position" (l. 2-3) - one thought cut in two by a line break
\n2. hyperbaton - "About suffering they were never wrong" (l. 1) instead of "They were never wrong about suffering" - inversion of the usual word order
\nMike:
\n1. shift - "They never forgot that even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course"
\n2. repitition - "dogs go on with their doggy"","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20907319","body":"THE REST OF OUR IN-CLASS WORK (POETRY) IS ON ANNIE'S B BLOCK WIKI PAGE (scroll to the bottom)","dateCreated":"1267490257","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"apark10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/apark10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20902845","dateCreated":"1267485801","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jenniferp22","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jenniferp22","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20902845"},"dateDigested":1532171734,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Jennifer Park: Daedalus and Icarus","description":"
\nDaedalus was a craftsman. He designed the which was a maze on the island of Crete. He was imprisoned in this Labyrinth and in order to _escape, he made wings for himself and for his son , Icarus. These wings were made of feathers held together bywax, Daedalus told his son not to too close to the sun, but Icarus did not listen to this warning and he flew too high up. The sun the wax and he fell.
\n
\nWhat do you think about Icarus? Discuss his character and action?
\n
\nEven though his father warned him about flying too close to the son, he flew anyway because of his curiosity.
\n
\n2. What do you think of the consequences of his actions? Was it a punishment? A natural event? An important event?
\n
\nI think it is a punishment for not listening to his father and being imprudent.
\n
\n
\n
\n
\nBruegel, Pieter
\nLandscape with the Fall of Icarus
\nc. 1558
\nOil on canvas, mounted on wood
\n73.5 x 112 cm
\nMusees Royaux des Beaux-Arts de Belgique, Brussels
\n
\n2. Look closely at the painting. Discuss what you see and then, as a group, write down the description of what you see in this picture.
\n
\nThere is one person drowning and another doing something near by.
\nJail in the middle of the water.
\nThe main subject is plowing.
\nShepherd with his sheep below. Couple of black sheep.
\nA big sheep.
\nFeathers scattered.
\n
\n3. Look at the name of the painting. What is the connection?
\nThe drowning man is Icarus. There are feathers scattered around him.
\n
\n4. What is this painting saying about life?
\nLife continues even after one person dies.
\n
\n
\n
\n
\n1. Do some quick research. What is the story behind the painting?
\nThere are three witnesses to the flight. The waters are calm. Ploughman is completely oblivious to Iracus's fate.
\n
\n2. What are some details and what do they mean which do NOT follow the Greek Legend of Icarus
\nThe ploughman is oblivious to Iracus's fate.
\n
\n3. In the skimming, what seem to be 3 significant (or interesting) points.
\n 1. Ploughman is doing work on the earth. When you do work on earth you go to heaven, but when you try flying up you fall and die.
\n 2. Punishment for trying to enter God's boundaries.
\n
\n
\n
\n
\n1. The tone of the poem is indifference. Although it is about a man falling out of the sky, the poem carries a humorous tone. It is as if someone falling out of the sky is common.
\n"But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone
\nAs it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green
\nWater; and the expensive delicate ship that must have seen
\nSomething amazing, a boy falling out of the sky,
\nhad somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on."
\n
\nSomeone falling out of the sky should be a significant event, but in the poem Icarus' fall is not given a second thought. The ship sails "calmly" on even after his fall while the sun simply shines on him disappearing into the water.
\n
\n
\n2. Nothing in the painting makes you think that someone just fell out of the sky. There is a man farming, completely clueless about what has happened, a chip sailing calmly, and a shepherd turned away from the scene of the accident. The painting matches extremely well with the tone of the poem as it too has a nonchalant mood to it.
\n
\n5. Like everything else, diction takes a large role in making the tone of this poem nonchalant. If I hadn't researched Daedalus and Icarus beforehand, I would have though it was just a simple poem. I would have had no idea of the deeper meaning that it holds. The use of common words such as "where he dogs go on with their doggy life" adds to the indifferent tone.
\n
\n7. Enjambment is used throughout the poem. I think this only adds onto the nonchalant tone that this poem takes.
\nAlliteration is also used throughout.
\n"martyrdom must"
\n"sun shone"","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20902869","body":"The first part is the work we did as a group in class (Dabin and Ilwon)","dateCreated":"1267485825","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"jenniferp22","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/jenniferp22","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20873385","dateCreated":"1267458750","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20873385"},"dateDigested":1532171734,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Ilmin and Il-jee","description":"Daedalus and Icarus Responses","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20873557","body":"Daedalus was a crafsman<\/u>. He designed the which was a maze on the island of Crete. He was imprisoned in this Labyrinth and in order to escape<\/u> , he made wings for himself and for his son<\/u> , Icarus. These wings were made of feathers<\/u> held together by wax<\/u>, Daedalus told his son not to too close to the sun, but Icarus did not stick<\/u> to this warning and he flew<\/u> too high up. The sun the wax and he fell.","dateCreated":"1267458877","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20873823","body":"Ilmin: Icarus is easily excitable and obviously not a good listener. Although he first agrees to follow his father's directions, he loses track of himself because of the ecstasy of flying.He shows a major flaw of a human; not being able to overcome his own emotions and letting his feelings take over rationality.
\n
\nIljee: In good terms, you would call him ambitious. In negative terms, he would be rebellious. I would have to agree with you (Il-min) on how his is exemplary of humans-- those who suffer to overcome their emotions before rationality. And this myth I thought represented the greed in both the father and son's myth as well.","dateCreated":"1267459062","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20874051","body":"Ilmin: I think it was a natural consequence rather than a punishment.
\n
\nIljee: Same.. I'll have to agree. Punishment in my thought... is more planned before anyone even takes action. Whether the father had warned him or not, his wing was going to melt... Which makes it more of a natural occurring.
\n
\nIlmin: When a person becomes too greedy or too overcome by his emotions, the natural result is that there is a negative side effect to it. In this case, it was that the wings melted and he lost his life .But in other instances, it can be anything from losing a friend or making a wrong decision.","dateCreated":"1267459227","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20874583","body":"
\nThere is a sea with a bright sun over it. Sun seems to be setting. People seem to be done with work and preparing to head home.
\n
\nThere is a woman walking a horse, and a man looking up at the sky.
\n
\nThere is a boat in the sea and trees, and in far, you can see a city with buildings and such.
\n
\nThe boats are coming in and out.
\n
\nThere are sheeps.","dateCreated":"1267459595","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20874811","body":"This is where Icarus meets his last because he decided to rise too high.
\n
\nThe sun setting is a metaphor to his death, as his life meets its end. As the sun slowly disappears from the horizon, Icarus wax slowly melts as well.","dateCreated":"1267459730","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20875005","body":"The whole painting portrays, "cycle" of life.
\n
\nSun sets and rises.
\nBoats come in and out.
\nEarth rotates around and around.
\nAnd people go through daily routine again and again.","dateCreated":"1267459887","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20875791","body":"1. The tone is of a general nonchalance. Even though the death of Icarus occurs, it is recorded as just another thing that happens as a part of the day. 'but for him it was not an important failure' shows the indifferent tone of the poem. Also, 'calmly' in the last stanza emphasizes the continuing tone of the poem.","dateCreated":"1267460705","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20876005","body":"2. In the painting, the people are looking to the sky or doing their own work even though Icarus is drowning in the ocean. In fact, no one or thing gives any attention to Icarus. This is consistent with the indifferent tone of the poem. And as we have mentioned in our interpretation of life in the painting, "life goes on". When sun sets, sun will rise again. When a day ends, another day will come. When we make a mistake today, we can make up for it tomorrow. When you leave, you can come back. Time does not wait. Time is indifferent. Nothing, not even the ocean, boats, people, sheets, sun, tree shows care for the fall of Icarus.","dateCreated":"1267460934","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20876545","body":"7.
\nIlmin: The enjambments in the poem not only emphasize the rhyme, but also the tone of the poem. The lines often end with words such as away, course, and dully to emphasize the nonchalant tone of the poem. Also, the rhyme adds to the flow and 'normal-ness' of the whole event that is happening throughout the poem.
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\nIljee: I think repetition plays a big role creating the tone. Especially 'how'. How seems to evoke seriousness. This mood helps create the nonchalance as mentioned. All the "how....." is a detached description. How seems to be a description that comes from second hand experience. Such as "how well, they understood" in in line 2 is experienced by 'they' not directly the author. And like you (Ilmin) mentioned, the nonchalance can also be heard with the help of pronouns he uses. "They" and "It" are two pronouns that creates distance between the author and the subject.","dateCreated":"1267461558","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"20876833","body":"5. The diction of the poem is largely divided. It uses strong words such as disaster and forsaken, mixed with dull words such as leisurely, happen, and dully. This contrast helps to show the nonchalance that exists amidst the happening of this 'terrible' and devastating event. The fact that everyone is sailing calmly on through the dreadful martyrdom emphasizes the tone and theme of the poem.","dateCreated":"1267461834","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"ikam","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/ikam","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"20871477","dateCreated":"1267457258","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"primal91","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/primal91","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20871477"},"dateDigested":1532171735,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Il Won's post for Icarus and Daedulus","description":"1. What is the tone of the poem? Support your answer with two specific details from the text
\n- The poem gives out the sense of lamentation for the inability of younger people to understand elder\u2019s silent advice. \u201c[W]hen the aged are reverently, passionately waiting \u2026 there always must be \/ Children who did not specially want it to happen.\u201d The aged, who have been through all moments that young people have yet to face, have acquired the knowledge through the process. We all know a birth is such a sacred moment that we should \u201creverently [and] passionately wait.\u201d By comparing Icarus\u2019 failure to comply with Daedulus, the author implied mourning for young people\u2019s ignorance that proceeds with unfortunate disaster. Yet, the author was contended that those who are ignorant deserve the outcome. \u201c[T]he ploughman may \/ Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry, \/ But for him it was not an important failure.\u201d It might appear that the ploughman was a cold-hearted incapable of sympathizing fools. However, the author indicates that such is understandable by giving explanation behind it\u2014that \u201cit was not an important failure.\u201d
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\n2. Look carefully at the Brueghel painting (from the Mus\u00e9e des Beaux Arts in Brussels) for the details described in the poem. Do you see other details in the painting that seem consistent with the tone of the poem?
\n- The shepherd, facing directly against Icarus toward the sky, seems like he is sighing for another mishap that should take place for Icarus to then understand what Daedulus was trying to say before. Man in a white robe, fishing on the shore, was the one who could have jumped into the water and saved Icaurs. Yet, he proceeded calmly what he was doing; thinking such \u201cwas not an important failure.\u201d
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\n5. Briefly describe your first impressions regarding the author\u2019s diction and\/or syntax.
\n- By pulling the main subject or important prepositional phrase at the end of the sentence, usually in the following line, the author projected the general theme of the poem. The poem majorly discusses how we are more knowledgeable about life as we age. The poem itself, too, tells us the ultimate meaning at the end of the sentences. For instance\u2014About suffering they were never wrong, \/ The Old Masters\u2014this sentence pulled the subject to the next line to indicate that the main idea is delivered as we read toward the end of the line, just like how we know better as we age.
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\n7. Have each group member point out at least two poetic elements in the poem -- they all need to be different. Share out loud first, then write your different points.
\n- The obvious one is an enjambment. Probably the enjambment was the most powerful tool to deliver and portray the author\u2019s point. By having the stronger statement in the following line, the author could personally demonstrate what a knowledge after age means.
\nAnother one was assonance, yet it was inconspicuous. Eating, opening, window, walking, waiting, miraculous, specifically, skating, all of these repeat \u2018i\u2019 sound to add poetic side of this poem, which somewhat sounds colloquial dialogue. Pond, forgot, martyrdom, corner, spot, dogs, torturer, ploughman, forsaken, important, shone, these repeat \u2018o\u2019 sounds. These \u2018o\u2019 elongates its sound and puts more stress and importance to the words.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[],"more":0}]},{"id":"20866481","dateCreated":"1267452364","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"dabinl","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/dabinl","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/kisapenglporter2009-10.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/20866481"},"dateDigested":1532171736,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Da Bin: we decided to answer these individually.","description":"2. Look carefully at the Brueghel painting (from the Mus\u00e9e des Beaux Arts in Brussels) for the details described in the poem. Do you see other details in the painting that seem consistent with the tone of the poem?
\nEven a quick glance at the Brueghel painting reveals the apparent consistency with the tone of the poem. Although the subjects portrayed in the painting are not \u201ceating\u201d, \u201copening a window\u201d, or \u201cjust walking dully along\u201d, we can still see similar actions taking place. The three men are rather careless to Icarus\u2019s fall. Despite the fact that a young man just fell down from the sky with wings that are melting down, the three men pay their sole attention to their individual work. One man is plowing, while another man is looking after his sheep. A man near the shore continues to fish and does not bother to help Icarus, even though Icarus falls quite near him. The details are not only revealed by human characters in the painting. The background remains oblivious to Icarus\u2019s death. The sun still shines beautifully, while the ocean current continues to flow. The entire world is indifferent towards an individual\u2019s tragedy.
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\n3. What is the "human position" of suffering in this poem?
\nIn terms of suffering, humans have no choice or option. Humans are not in a position where they can control extraneous factors (such as the surrounding\u2019s atmosphere or other people\u2019s reaction) or suffering itself. Suffering occurs \u201cwhile someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully along\u201d, meaning the rest of the world may be completely unaware of an individual\u2019s suffering. Eating, opening a window, and just walking seem so trivial and common; yet, even an individual is suffering due to immense pain and breakdown, those usual, daily actions are more important to other people. As the poem points out, the three men could have \u201cheard the splash, the forsaken cry\u201d. However, none of those happenings were important to the three men. Human position in suffering is indeed lonely, as it is marked with complete isolationism.
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\n5. Briefly describe your first impressions regarding the author\u2019s diction and\/or syntax.
\nAt first, I liked the poem as it appeared to be so simple. The author uses simple, easy words to get his point across. The colloquial tone of the poem directly contrasts the deep content it holds. While the vocabulary and words being used remain simple, the meaning speaks of the universal truth of human race. The poet uses the pronoun \u201cthey\u201d, in order to make the reader feel isolated, utilizing out-group psychology. The several use of \u201cthey\u201d separates the reader from the rest of the world, creating a mood in which one\u2019s pain and suffering become truly lonely and isolated.
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\n7. two poetic elements in the poem
\nThe end rhyme of the poem is unique, and it adds to the poem\u2019s mood. There seems to be no rules other than the fact that lines with end rhymes are placed in separated positions. For example, \u201cwrong\u201d and \u201calong\u201d are each from line 1 and line 4; \u201cunderstood\u201d and \u201cwood\u201d are from line 2 and line 8\u201d; \u201cwaiting\u201d and \u201cskating\u201d are from line 5 and line 7. None of the words that rhyme are close to each other. This sense of separation adds the mood of isolation, emphasizing the poet\u2019s intention. The poem\u2019s cacophonous sounds also serve important roles. For instance, lines like \u201cthe torturer\u2019s horse \/ Scratches its innocent behind on a tree\u201d and \u201cin a corner, some untidy spot\u201d include harsh t-sound and k-sound; those words that are cacophonic to the ear highlight the poem\u2019s meaning, as they underscore the harsh reality of lonely, isolated human position\u2019s in suffering and the indifferent nature of the world.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"20907261","body":"the answers that we (as a group) completed during the class time are posted on the discussion tab in Jenn's post and also on my wiki page.","dateCreated":"1267490205","smartDate":"Mar 1, 2010","userCreated":{"username":"dabinl","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/dabinl","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]}],"more":true},"comments":[]},"http":{"code":200,"status":"OK"},"redirectUrl":null,"javascript":null,"notices":{"warning":[],"error":[],"info":[],"success":[]}}